Monday, March 05, 2007

Strange Culture......

Last night I attended a engagement of my cousin sister to some unseen, unmet man.

The following is what I encountered at that MUSLIM Engagement.

I arrived rather early and found that the mean and women are segregated from each other by means of a wall consisting of a decorated bedsheet on bamboos. Well it is the unity of a man and a woman, so why are exactly are men and women kept away from eachother's sight??

Well whatever, my brother and me proceed and sat in the empty, open air, bedsheet room. We sat in plastic chair just staing at eachothers faces as not a soul in sight at the Male Camp.

To kill time I wander around and bump into my uncle. So I ask him to introduce me to the groom. Well he informs he isn't here and isn't going to come. The groom is NOT going to attend his OWN engagement. Whateva.....

Thats not all further into the conversation Im informed my cousin hasn't even met him once! She has just seen photographs of him! Only her family members have met him, interrogated him n whatever. It like a lottery system. You're just simply taking a chance into whom your going to marry. All this at the request of the groom's family who wish the two shall not meet who also called for the men and women in separate camps! Well isn't that the duty of a possesive father of a hot daughter??

A the union of a man and a woman, men and women are delibrately kept out of sight from eachother! The groom isn't allowed to attend his own engagement! Not only that, the bride and the groom will come face-to-face at the wedding, but from a distance. There I also a strong possibility that the bride and the grooms face might be covered with some midieval decorations.
Their honeymoon is the first time they meet. Well no turning back at that moment.....

Like wow! 2007 and this can still go on. I wonder why they didn't allow the Bride to meet the groom? How da hell does India have such a population after such customs???

Thats Muslim Culture for you.


Nayaab said...

Religion is a matter of personal belief and each to his own. Being (half?) muslim yourself, you should have a greater understanding of the same.
And speaking of customs, many of them are even more regressive than the ones you've just mentioned. And they're not all within the umbrella of Islam. Do I still have a traditional frame of mind? No. So I don't agree with many of them, yeah. And I've seen people strike a balance between modern and traditional, and beautifully so. But I don't demean others' customs; I respect them for what they are...the universal law of "each to his own"...
Also, not all invitations are meant to be accepted. If one cannot honour the invitation sent to them, in totality, then it is best not to attend such events. Just as you are entitled to your opinion, and I can refrain from putting up my humble opinion on your blog if i cannot agree with it...but gross misconception and generalization('Muslim Culture' as mentioned by you which is what really irked me, cause it's a very personal matter for me...) is an error in judgement and you could've avoided that...Cause when you speak of "Muslim" >here< it is broadly related to all Indianized customs and behaviourial aspects, whereas Islam is a well populated religion all over the world...and has scientific and hygienic reasons for it's existence thus...
Lastly, I apologise for a lengthy ramble, but it's one of those things I couldn't shut up about. Feel free to delete it, especially if it offends you, for that is not what I intended, merely wished to express my opinion in a public forum.
Tempen tu sol brillando!

neo said...

Live and let live is probably the most destructive thing around....and anything escapes with that justification.

By saying to eah his own u actually make it "ok" for a man in korea to eat a baby, aborted foetus. To each his own?then probably paedophilia is "ok".

You gotta draw a line with what wrong n whats not.

About accepting invitations i think irrespective of honour, one has to see life as it happens n experience ppl and their mentality. And thier lifestyle. It education, fascinating. It makes u revise ur thinking, reaffirms it in many ways.

I do know that islam has a lot of "reasons" for a lot of its actions, many of which do n dont make sense. Well not all muslims are living in a desertwith no technology what so ever. Thats where ur personal judgement steps in to judge what applicable n what not. But rarely ppl practice it....this narrow minded attitude exists in vast majority. Ru aware of the horrors of afgani women? I mean forget afgan, almost all major islamic countries has problem with their neighbours. Now that cant be ignored. People say dont judge a entire community on the action of a few ppl. Few related ppl i can totally understand(Read: terrorists). But a few unrelated ppl? Like having probs wid christanity, jew, sikh, hindu, buddhist, etc. Mind you, dont forget the "internal" conflicts" when the list runs out. I mean what? Can you point out any other community with so many issues(Shiv sena not included)?

If no1 speaks against them they go on n on until eternity just like newtons 1st law. You the trouble makers n the problem solvers are a bare minority, its the indifferent ones who let the problem go on.


neo said...

ooopps there serious typing errors in the above comment.

*You know the trouble makers n the problem solvers are a bare minority, its the indifferent ones who let the problem go on.

neo said...

* Well not all muslims are living in a desert with no technology what so ever in 600AD.

Nayaab said...

Your continual self contradictory statements confuse me.
Firstly, "irrespective of honour"? How can you even make a statement like that? Without honour, speaking of morals and your beliefs is really pointless, ain't it?
Also, you speak of afghani women etc, where people force other people to follow a certain mindset, because they can't be tolerant and live and let live. Then you say that live and let live is a destructive philosophy? Also, 'each to his own' is not a moral policing statement. sure we can judge right and wrong for OURSELVES, but who are we to go around moral policing others? You can't stop a man from eating a foetus or a paedophile (unless you have some superpower you haven't told me of?). Instead, take up something charity work, and expend your energy on an attainable goal. You can't go around changing mindsets. Neither can you pre-conceive crimes like in the minority report. However, you CAN live by example, and others will imbibe from you if they wish to. Forcibly changing their mindsets would put one in the league of Osama Bin Laden. And if you want to be more active than passive, there are many causes I can forward you too. Those are in much need of heed, as opposed to culture differences. Or join the law force. 'Each to his own' has a much deeper meaning and it's not the plain black and white one you've boiled it down to.
Muslims (AND people from other religions as well) do have access to technology. And yeah, everyone has personal judgement and can choose to stick with staid customs or go with their own or follow the Koran in the simple and altruistic sense it should be interpreted in. Back to the afghani women as you quoted, and problems that exist in "Muslim" countries...Terrorists exist in every religion. But they're not really following any religion, just misquoting it. No religion propagates disharmony. But if you are dividing them on the basis of the religion they claim they "belong to", Mosques get blasted atleast once a month in this country, Christian families get burnt in their cars by hindus not belonging to Shiv Sena(RSS, if i'm right), Sikhs get shot at in London and the US by ignorant Westerners(Jews, Christians alike) because they look like 'terrorists', and for instance in the Gujarat riots, my own extended family and friends in Ahmedabad were left homeless cause their houses were burnt and their own "friends" from other religions refused to take them in their homes in fear, cause they were "Muslims". Pregnant women were raped and killed and their stomachs were slashed(again, not shiv saniks, but pehelwans from nearby cities were summoned to commit these acts). Palestine has been holed up into a small piece of land, cause Israel(backed up by the US), won't even strive to achieve a compromise. For land, LAND, palestinian households are destroyed. Sure, suicide bombers are in the wrong, 'cause they don't solve the problem but aggravate it. But I don't judge them either really, because i cannot even imagine what it's like to see my parents being killed before my eyes by Israeli army men. In the 1993 riots in Mumbai, my family had to seek refuge in a neighbour's house cause Hindus were attacking muslim households (again, not Shiv Sainiks). But does that mean i generalise Hindu culture? No. The neighbour who came through for us was a South Indian, Mrs. Usha Shetty. Also, I have the best of friends in all communities and I respect their beliefs and sit silently by them as they pray in little temple rooms/prayer rooms in their homes. I also attend weddings of other religions and honour the observation of their customs no matter how ridiculous or old fashioned it may seem to me. Because that's what the philosophy is about. Tolerance and respect. Not about right or wrong. If you don't want to support wrong don't be around it. Don't support it. Don't avoid it or evade it. But don't ask others to see in the same light as you. Don't think you can change it in a battle of words...and don't forget to see a much bigger picture, the crimes out there in the world that are much greater than being conservative about men and women sharing a room at ceremonies.
Internal conflicts? Can you explain why there is so much subdivision in ALL religions? Cause you conveniently single out internal conflicts in Islam. Old Testament, New Testament Wars? Caste wars? Subculture Wars? The corrupt high priests in all religions? Bribed Moulanas, Pseudo Sadhus and Saints, Paedophile Priests? As we speak, there is an internal war raging between two Sikh communities in the North. And no, these incidents are not few and far in between. Ask journalists, and those who are truly knowledgeable, because they broaden their perspectives and see each story from all the sides. Domestic violence caused because of staid dowry culture and derogatory behaviour towards women? (in Hindu, Muslim and Indian households all over)
And yet you say trouble makers are in the minority? That's a very convenient quote, especially since it reflects that the blood covered pages of the newspapers everyday have either not met you or have failed to affect you. I have yet to read a headline about a crime even indirectly caused because of a person who let people cherish their set of harmless beliefs. I never veered towards being indifferent to crimes or being cowardly when one needs to be brave. But those again, are much bigger issues.
But can we give up on a faith so easily? Because of bad elements in all religions? You seem to have. But I'd rather not generalise, cause here is where the "Each to his own" philosophy comes to play. I pray cause it gives me peace of mind, so i can move forward and do something meaningful in my life. And pass it forward. And you seem to think that it is the FAITH and not the PEOPLE that are detrimental to peace and prosperity.
Well let me tell you, there are many corrupt souls to incite wars, but there is also enough religion to instill tolerance and respect and hope for a better life. Having read many religious texts, I can proclaim with surety that the wrong doers, or people who follow customs so religiously, have failed to read the actual texts of the faith they follow. And also fail to live by those texts, that really are so simple in meaning but grossly misinterpretated by their followers and those unfamiliar.
Tolerance, respect and letting people make decisions for themselves and living with their own what "each to his own" is about. Live by example, my friend. Don't expect to influence people to believe what you do. Cause we can't change mindsets. That's the note I'd like to sign off on. I don't expect or aim to change your mindset either, but if i still haven't been able to give you an added perspective on religious tolerance, then there's really nothing more I can do. Sorry once again for a lengthy ramble...Have a great life and tempen to sul brillando.
PS: If you seek knowledge:

neo said...

There is absolutely nothing contradictary in my statements, except the interpretations u chose u read.

I never said ANYTHING about afgani women. My statements as quoted above is "Ru aware of the horrors of afgani women?". No examples cited there. WHat you got from there was a figment of ur own imagination.

There is a very fine line between live and let live & peaceful, healthy living. my point here is people dont follow live and let live, t put in other words they follow "live n let die!". They're indifferent to everything until it doesnt affect them in any way. These are the fools who detoriate everything. EVERYTHING. Whenever u read something wrong that happend, u gotta remember that there atleast 20 people well aware of those activities who CHOSE to shut. Now which religion preaches that? If something is wrong, its wrong, and can be judges by common sense. But its obscured in to relativity by vary low intelligence n forgotten for the sake of avoiding complexities.

An example of live and let die: "You can't stop a man from eating a foetus or a paedophile (unless you have some superpower you haven't told me of?)."

Steal away from the seriousness with a joke. Its just eclipsed away.

RSS, Shiv sena, etc are attention seekers and dont have any permanent problems with any religion, except with one obvious one. They're mere into these stunts for publicity. And y the sikhs are fightin you gotta lookup. THey're real political issues which are a bargepole away from religious
issues. They are propagating themselves via religious issues. YOU HAVE JUST GOT TO READ AND BE INFORMED BEFORE GIVING EXAMPLES. Its pretty much simple. And people int his country are far more idle than anywhere, im seriously considering an effigy business. I mean who doesn't want to get n rich?

And yes honey sikhs do get shot in london n many other places as well. But do those people go around shooting everyother community? Can you point out any other community whose got a problem with multiple communities? (Justified or unjustified included) (WARNING: GEORGE BUSH NOT INCLUDED FOR OBV. REASONS)

Nayaab: "nd for instance in the Gujarat riots, my own extended family and friends in Ahmedabad were left homeless cause their houses were burnt and their own "friends" from other religions refused to take them in their homes in fear, cause they were "Muslims"."

Honey in this case ur relatives neeed made some bad friends. Coz '92 riots, we were the only muslim family in a marathi society n they were willingly offering complete protection to us. Thats just the friends you choose. BAD JUDEMENT OF CHARECTER. I dont blame them bcoz lot o people do go thru similar shit. ANd keep in mind that my father wasnt in town when the riots were on and i was about 4 n my brother was 2, and these guys were not that innocent bcoz the area was patroled by these certain idle marathi boys who wud beat up any muslim. ANd yes my mother stopped whatever unjustified bashing she witnessed. Dint really follow the "live n let die philosophy". It depends on who u are, which friends u choose.

Nayaab: "Pregnant women were raped and killed and their stomachs were slashed(again, not shiv saniks, but pehelwans from nearby cities were summoned to commit these acts)."

Honey ur just gettin unrelated, irrelevant facts for the sake of inducing emotion! My question was can u name one community whose got multiple enemies?? Ur naming diffrenet unrelated incidents. Do these pehelwans go about killing women of ANY community?
These guys are hired just like you said for political motives. And these political motives is run a politicians for their personal power game. Frankly no religion is to blame here. Its ust they n their personal agenda. Please read up carefully. And unbiased accounts. Make sure to check up the authors history, many of them are politically funded. Every party has their team of reporters sitting in every publication to print at their command. Its sounds all dark but it aint that bad. Dont u dare dismiss this. My dad has made a documentary on Ayodhya, and is a ceo of a news channel. The ayodhya documentary was shot by him but forcefully edited by some other guys who later turned out to be fueled by the RSS o BJP something like that. So clear misinterpretations of fact. ANd the name carried out as director is a muslim one. Read up honey, read up.

Nayabb: "For land, LAND, palestinian households are destroyed."

In the name of your GOD dont, Dont, DONT, PLEASE DONT JUSTIFY PALESTINE EVER!!

Its just that im not a fan of countries who find killing israeli's as "LEGAL" and "good deed". And make that a part of their constitution. Sorry, but Im not really a fan of anyone dying. Thats just me u know, i guess you could understan since u believe in live n let live?

Nayaab: "But I don't judge them either really, because i cannot even imagine what it's like to see my parents being killed before my eyes by Israeli army men."

HOORAH!!!! Good going with reading all your religious texts!! Also good going with LIVE AND LET LIVE!!
I guess anyone readingthis can safely say the debate ends RIGHT HERE!

But I shall go on......I love rambling as well!!

Probably my method of changing peoples perspective is not very effective...but I aint going to stop. Maybe a change of plan. Religion was made for psychological security and thats exactly what it functions for. You wont find god thru anybook. Its like a personal journey which will be different for every person like DNA. Frankly the guys with the best perspective on GOD is Church of Satan. Read Satanic Bible.

Nayaab: "Cause you conveniently single out internal conflicts in Islam."

True there are subdivision in all religions but I never bitched about them? Can u tell me why accuse me of that?

Anyways, you tell me how many religions kill eachother because of religious conflicts?
All religions are man made and flawed. Since you discuss christanity, can name one instance of assasination on Dan Brown for saying "Dude ur jesus totally gets it on with mary magdalene!!".
You know if I tried to say something remotely something like that about islam you'll see a fragment of my body in ur local masjid(Read: Salman Rushdie, and that cartoonist from denmark).

ANd your last question for a million dollars is:
*cue tense music here"
Which of the above religions is tolerant?
Is it:
a) Islam
b) Christanity

Either which ways, you wont win the million dollars. Go figure Nancy Drew!

Nayaab: "And yet you say trouble makers are in the minority? That's a very convenient quote"

Look around ur society, how many criminals do u see? Walk around your area, you'll see familiar faces, how many criminals you see? If you see a majority, I suggest you step outside the prison and take a look.

There is a lot of crime happening, but that is still commited by a minority. They just appear everyday cause the newspapers are giving it heavy attention now. Which never happend earlier. With all the high profile cases which garner attention n sometimes make a difference in society. But they dont happen to every n not every commits them. They just get a LOT of publicity n hype. Which is not unjustified or anything but uhave to remember that if it was happening to every the headline would say "30 girls raped in the city yesterday" and not "1 girl". And thank your so called god for that. Bit tis sad it happens even for that 1. But the indifferent people let it go on.

BTW, a convienent quote is: LIVE AND LET LIVE(READ: Please dont give me ur tension, i hav enuf of my own!).

Faith is again an example of psychological tolerance. Religion is a utopian world should be to discover god by urself, by own personal path just like DNA. I see all religions teaching "laws" which were mere guidelines for healthy living IN THE BY GONE ERA. The earth isnt flat anymore is it?
And yes people fail to read the actual intended meaning because:
a) they're ambigious. I DONT BLAME ANYONE FOR THIS.
b) All religious books have been edited at some point of time for various gains.

Religion is just different brands for the same poison(Read: Ciggarette, Colas).

Nayaab: "Tolerance, respect and letting people make decisions for themselves and living with their own what "each to his own" is about."

Tolerance, repect I completely agree. But letting people make their own decisions? So the dowry crimes u mentioned is now ok? Sati, ok?
This is the line of divide im talking about. If a person makes religious decision to find his/her god, even harmless mistakes r forgiven.
But what do u have to say for sati? to each his own. What happend to convenient quote.

I do have religious tolerance. Im ok with scientologis wearing foil on their head n meditating, u see! But if they tried to kill someone if someone for making fun of their religion, THEY WILL GET IT FROM ME!

And mindsets can be changed. Read: Sri x 35374374 times Ravi Shankar. Hes a travel agent for heaven during apocalypse. You got to get on join his faith n get members into the faith to get on THAT list!

Im not going to heaven, boo hooo!

neo said...

ok there mayb typos in my comment, plz forgive them

neo said...

*Faith is an example of psychological security

neo said...

*Religion in a utopian world wud be........

Forgive me, im miserable at typing, but if there is anything ambigous I will clarify it further. Also anything im not good at expressing very will elaborateif something doesnt make sense...

Nayaab said...

There really is no room for a meeting point,consensus or healthy discussion when conceptions, interpretations and aims are diametrically opposite. My aim was only to widen the dimensions of your perspective, and yours was probably to defend a stance and your mindset, and drive a point home.
And the internet serves as just words on a screen, no emotion can be read into them, as clearly my sarcastic realism turns into a joke, and what you truly wished to convey and make me understand wasn't really how it was expressed.
I wish you all the best in life and maybe one day we'll look back and see how much and what we've achieved on our separate paths in life. Talking about it in mere blog posts, is certainly not what drives my time and inclination, and my emotion for my beliefs drove me into expending energy in a wrong arena.
Tempen tu sol brillando!

Sahej said...

ok its all well and good but don't u go around calling the internet names missy or else somebody gonna gedda hurt real bad .... see now thats intolerance :P

neo said...

In the whole peace speech your philosophy changed to: an eye for an eye!! Not to forget it began wid u accusing me of making self-contradictory statements.

Words are words irrespective of their medium. And words do carry emotion. Pen is mightier than the sword?

Yes, indeed we shall meet in the future and see how much we have achieved in our separate paths. BTW, Is personal life included?